Comments on: A real grassroots initiative by bloggers http://aaron-ng.info/blog/a-real-grassroots-initiative-by-bloggers.html Comments, opinions and an occasional ramble Wed, 10 Mar 2010 16:24:46 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Find Out Whether AIMS is Screwing The Right Hole « JUST STUFF http://aaron-ng.info/blog/a-real-grassroots-initiative-by-bloggers.html/comment-page-2#comment-18142 Find Out Whether AIMS is Screwing The Right Hole « JUST STUFF Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:19:42 +0000 http://aaron-ng.info/blog/a-real-grassroots-initiative-by-bloggers.html#comment-18142 [...] A real grassroots initiative by bloggers (Aaron Ng) [...] [...] A real grassroots initiative by bloggers (Aaron Ng) [...]

]]> By: Deb http://aaron-ng.info/blog/a-real-grassroots-initiative-by-bloggers.html/comment-page-2#comment-17693 Deb Mon, 12 May 2008 06:15:55 +0000 http://aaron-ng.info/blog/a-real-grassroots-initiative-by-bloggers.html#comment-17693 Hello, I am new here. I just wish to enquire. From anyone. Does anyone know how I get in touch with this character called Darkness? We want to conduct an interview. And we are willing to pay real money. If anyone has any information on how to establish contact with them please leave it here. Much appreciated. Many Thanks. Deb Hello,

I am new here. I just wish to enquire. From anyone. Does anyone know how I get in touch with this character called Darkness? We want to conduct an interview. And we are willing to pay real money. If anyone has any information on how to establish contact with them please leave it here. Much appreciated. Many Thanks.

Deb

]]> By: die die http://aaron-ng.info/blog/a-real-grassroots-initiative-by-bloggers.html/comment-page-2#comment-17686 die die Mon, 05 May 2008 09:35:06 +0000 http://aaron-ng.info/blog/a-real-grassroots-initiative-by-bloggers.html#comment-17686 "You see, in life it’s very easy to point out the mistakes of other people when we all write article pointing to the bad here there and everywhere. But when it comes to your own life where it could be said, you have all the power over good and bad, as you can all see for yourself. They are not so different from even those who they choose to pick faults with no end with. We all live under one sun it seems." You know what Gandhi said dont you? "First, they will ignore you and hope that you will just go away. If then doesnt work, then they will just build walls around you and claim that you asked them to do it" “You see, in life it’s very easy to point out the mistakes of other people when we all write article pointing to the bad here there and everywhere. But when it comes to your own life where it could be said, you have all the power over good and bad, as you can all see for yourself. They are not so different from even those who they choose to pick faults with no end with. We all live under one sun it seems.”

You know what Gandhi said dont you?

“First, they will ignore you and hope that you will just go away. If then doesnt work, then they will just build walls around you and claim that you asked them to do it”

]]> By: jean http://aaron-ng.info/blog/a-real-grassroots-initiative-by-bloggers.html/comment-page-2#comment-17684 jean Mon, 05 May 2008 06:45:49 +0000 http://aaron-ng.info/blog/a-real-grassroots-initiative-by-bloggers.html#comment-17684 The motivation to go thru with it, is too strong. Darkness may be right, there could be a hidden agenda :cry: The motivation to go thru with it, is too strong. Darkness may be right, there could be a hidden agenda :cry:

]]> By: Harphoon http://aaron-ng.info/blog/a-real-grassroots-initiative-by-bloggers.html/comment-page-2#comment-17683 Harphoon Sun, 04 May 2008 12:53:12 +0000 http://aaron-ng.info/blog/a-real-grassroots-initiative-by-bloggers.html#comment-17683 Good Evening all, I think it will serve all quarters if I furnished a full translation; “This is where I will draw the line with my sword and stick it in the ground.” In the brotherhood when we believe a protracted campaign no longer serves our interest to prosecute on the long term. It’s a face saving way out we offer to those who chose to fortify themselves and fight to the bitter end. The custom originates all the way back to Roman times. We adopted it during the early days in our game bfr the age of the machine, some 800 years ago during the VIII Republic (space time) – the symbolism is pertinent only because the brotherhood has one of the most discipline armies in the virtual which is commonly known as the Roman army or fist of God http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=1v6AHksIXn8; here the translation of the act is this. You have my word, my armies will keep to this line; it doesn’t mean; its over, only I will hold here and await your answer; usually a messenger in a white horse is sent to the walled city to discuss terms / I know this sounds like Sesame street, but trust me, we take our game very seriously. This is not a joke. Allow me to clarify another point. Darkness has been ordered to stand down by the ASDF – choice does not feature here as much as the chain of command. The ASDF believe it’s important for us to come across as reasonable to the rest of blogosphere. They believe if others see that we are astute in attempting to explore all possible means of seeking a diplomatic resolution to this impasse. Perhaps this will prompt others to begin asking why these people choose to remain stoically silent in the face of such pressing matters which they have raised through Darkness. I believe, we have presented valid points which deserve to be considered very seriously. But as you can see for yourself, till today, they have not even so much as acknowledged them, yet alone offer any indication that they are even considering it. This remains very disturbing to all of us and we cannot understand why. Despite their overriding importance to the rest of the netizens in blogosphere. One thing will be clear after this; there can be no doubt about our sincerity. Even mica never bothered to do all this for Mr Brown. They hantamed him. We did all this because the ASDF in their wisdom felt we should move away from that sort of one way street real world politics – these men believe, rightly or wrongly, if blogosphere is to be a progressive and better place, then it can only be so through the setting of good examples and not just talk alone. For us history is our witness. Not the NLB type script history, but our own history. Our account here must be clear in her eyes. If they do not even bother to address our points after all this; then I really do not know what else to say. I can only shudder at prospects one day. If any of you find yourself in the same place before this community moderator. You will have to decide how important that is to you and what’s the cost to you, if you decide to take a back seat. You see, in life it’s very easy to point out the mistakes of other people when we all write article pointing to the bad here there and everywhere. But when it comes to your own life where it could be said, you have all the power over good and bad, as you can all see for yourself. They are not so different from even those who they choose to pick faults with no end with. We all live under one sun it seems. Harphoon Good Evening all,
I think it will serve all quarters if I furnished a full translation; “This is where I will draw the line with my sword and stick it in the ground.” In the brotherhood when we believe a protracted campaign no longer serves our interest to prosecute on the long term. It’s a face saving way out we offer to those who chose to fortify themselves and fight to the bitter end. The custom originates all the way back to Roman times. We adopted it during the early days in our game bfr the age of the machine, some 800 years ago during the VIII Republic (space time) – the symbolism is pertinent only because the brotherhood has one of the most discipline armies in the virtual which is commonly known as the Roman army or fist of God http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=1v6AHksIXn8; here the translation of the act is this. You have my word, my armies will keep to this line; it doesn’t mean; its over, only I will hold here and await your answer; usually a messenger in a white horse is sent to the walled city to discuss terms / I know this sounds like Sesame street, but trust me, we take our game very seriously. This is not a joke.
Allow me to clarify another point. Darkness has been ordered to stand down by the ASDF – choice does not feature here as much as the chain of command. The ASDF believe it’s important for us to come across as reasonable to the rest of blogosphere. They believe if others see that we are astute in attempting to explore all possible means of seeking a diplomatic resolution to this impasse. Perhaps this will prompt others to begin asking why these people choose to remain stoically silent in the face of such pressing matters which they have raised through Darkness.
I believe, we have presented valid points which deserve to be considered very seriously. But as you can see for yourself, till today, they have not even so much as acknowledged them, yet alone offer any indication that they are even considering it. This remains very disturbing to all of us and we cannot understand why. Despite their overriding importance to the rest of the netizens in blogosphere.
One thing will be clear after this; there can be no doubt about our sincerity. Even mica never bothered to do all this for Mr Brown. They hantamed him. We did all this because the ASDF in their wisdom felt we should move away from that sort of one way street real world politics – these men believe, rightly or wrongly, if blogosphere is to be a progressive and better place, then it can only be so through the setting of good examples and not just talk alone.
For us history is our witness. Not the NLB type script history, but our own history. Our account here must be clear in her eyes. If they do not even bother to address our points after all this; then I really do not know what else to say. I can only shudder at prospects one day. If any of you find yourself in the same place before this community moderator. You will have to decide how important that is to you and what’s the cost to you, if you decide to take a back seat.
You see, in life it’s very easy to point out the mistakes of other people when we all write article pointing to the bad here there and everywhere. But when it comes to your own life where it could be said, you have all the power over good and bad, as you can all see for yourself. They are not so different from even those who they choose to pick faults with no end with. We all live under one sun it seems.

Harphoon

]]> By: shoestring http://aaron-ng.info/blog/a-real-grassroots-initiative-by-bloggers.html/comment-page-2#comment-17682 shoestring Sun, 04 May 2008 07:26:26 +0000 http://aaron-ng.info/blog/a-real-grassroots-initiative-by-bloggers.html#comment-17682 I am glad somebody brought up the issue of sincerity. What I would do if I were the G15, is to get the group to do what they have expected of the government whenever the latter made a blunder. It would at least be killing two birds with one stone. Unless they still do not think they have made a mistake or are indifferent to what people think of them or what they did. In that case, I am afraid it is more serious than an imaginary ego problem. Continuing to ignore it and hoping it would go away is no different from the act some of them have claimed the government to be guilty of. They need to walk the talk. I am glad somebody brought up the issue of sincerity. What I would do if I were the G15, is to get the group to do what they have expected of the government whenever the latter made a blunder. It would at least be killing two birds with one stone.

Unless they still do not think they have made a mistake or are indifferent to what people think of them or what they did. In that case, I am afraid it is more serious than an imaginary ego problem. Continuing to ignore it and hoping it would go away is no different from the act some of them have claimed the government to be guilty of.

They need to walk the talk.

]]> By: jimmy tan http://aaron-ng.info/blog/a-real-grassroots-initiative-by-bloggers.html/comment-page-2#comment-17681 jimmy tan Sun, 04 May 2008 02:12:10 +0000 http://aaron-ng.info/blog/a-real-grassroots-initiative-by-bloggers.html#comment-17681 “This is where I will draw the line with my sword and stick it in the ground. I will not go further as I have no intention to win at the expense of the internet.” I just hope he is sincere this time. If he is sincere, I believe the online community can learn from this entire episode. My take is like this. I happen to know some of those bloggers who supported the proposal personally. I know they may have missed out some points and even possibly opened up themselves and even the wider community to possible attack, but I dont want to go after them if you know what I mean? I dont want the survey or poll. I dont think it serves any purpose other than to soothe the ego of one man and to prove him as king of the hill. What is the point of letting the truth out if it kills 15 people for one? However, I also believe darkness did highlight many thought provoking points and some of them are really very good in my opinion, they cannot just be brushed aside. Some of them are too detailed, so probably a team was assembled and we are seeing a very professional analysis. I believe the G15 bloggers have to tackle these issues if they want remain a credible and representative. I dont believe its possible to ignore it, this is not a matter of I dont like them so I will not engage them and treat them as dead. Some of the issues they have raised will simply not go away so easily. thx “This is where I will draw the line with my sword and stick it in the ground. I will not go further as I have no intention to win at the expense of the internet.”

I just hope he is sincere this time. If he is sincere, I believe the online community can learn from this entire episode.

My take is like this. I happen to know some of those bloggers who supported the proposal personally. I know they may have missed out some points and even possibly opened up themselves and even the wider community to possible attack, but I dont want to go after them if you know what I mean? I dont want the survey or poll. I dont think it serves any purpose other than to soothe the ego of one man and to prove him as king of the hill. What is the point of letting the truth out if it kills 15 people for one?

However, I also believe darkness did highlight many thought provoking points and some of them are really very good in my opinion, they cannot just be brushed aside. Some of them are too detailed, so probably a team was assembled and we are seeing a very professional analysis.

I believe the G15 bloggers have to tackle these issues if they want remain a credible and representative.

I dont believe its possible to ignore it, this is not a matter of I dont like them so I will not engage them and treat them as dead. Some of the issues they have raised will simply not go away so easily.

thx

]]> By: A Little Bird Atop the Canopy http://aaron-ng.info/blog/a-real-grassroots-initiative-by-bloggers.html/comment-page-1#comment-17680 A Little Bird Atop the Canopy Sat, 03 May 2008 07:05:40 +0000 http://aaron-ng.info/blog/a-real-grassroots-initiative-by-bloggers.html#comment-17680 Just because this Darkness joker lost the arguments, he slinks back to where he belongs. Yawn. Going by his logic, he should have asked for the opinion of the other anonymous bloggers first as to whether people like us had a voice or not, or whether they wanted to have a hand in the proposal or not (he certainly didn't bother to ask me, and he certainly didn't bother to ask anyone whom I know blogs anonymously). It just reeks of sour grapes - much like someone who missed out on a warehouse sale and then says "they should have extended it for me, I don't care". :mrgreen: Comparing this joker to the 15 people, all but one who <b>actually own blogs</b>, I have no doubt that this dumbass Darkness certainly represents me less than them since he doesn't even have a current blog [the blog comments he and his bunch of knuckleheads vomit in the blogosphere as blog comments don't count]. Just because this Darkness joker lost the arguments, he slinks back to where he belongs. Yawn.

Going by his logic, he should have asked for the opinion of the other anonymous bloggers first as to whether people like us had a voice or not, or whether they wanted to have a hand in the proposal or not (he certainly didn’t bother to ask me, and he certainly didn’t bother to ask anyone whom I know blogs anonymously). It just reeks of sour grapes – much like someone who missed out on a warehouse sale and then says “they should have extended it for me, I don’t care”. :mrgreen:

Comparing this joker to the 15 people, all but one who actually own blogs, I have no doubt that this dumbass Darkness certainly represents me less than them since he doesn’t even have a current blog [the blog comments he and his bunch of knuckleheads vomit in the blogosphere as blog comments don't count].

]]> By: prima delli http://aaron-ng.info/blog/a-real-grassroots-initiative-by-bloggers.html/comment-page-1#comment-17678 prima delli Sat, 03 May 2008 04:21:14 +0000 http://aaron-ng.info/blog/a-real-grassroots-initiative-by-bloggers.html#comment-17678 "This is where I will draw the line with my sword and stick it in the ground. I will not go further as I have no intention to win at the expense of the internet." Bambi Darkness Bad Boy, this is a very wise decision and we are all very proud of you. There is a lesson here, when the PAP went after J.Gomez during the last general elections. At first many ppl supported them, but they didnt know when to "draw the line" and "stick it in the ground." They just kept on going on and on and on. You see when you have made your point, most people will support you, but when you go overboard with it. They you run the risk of squandering the good will. Then many will ask. If he is so petty and small hearted. How can he be entrusted to do big things? How can he make out the big picture from the small? This is good Bambi. We are all very proud of you. “This is where I will draw the line with my sword and stick it in the ground. I will not go further as I have no intention to win at the expense of the internet.”

Bambi Darkness Bad Boy, this is a very wise decision and we are all very proud of you. There is a lesson here, when the PAP went after J.Gomez during the last general elections. At first many ppl supported them, but they didnt know when to “draw the line” and “stick it in the ground.” They just kept on going on and on and on. You see when you have made your point, most people will support you, but when you go overboard with it. They you run the risk of squandering the good will. Then many will ask. If he is so petty and small hearted. How can he be entrusted to do big things? How can he make out the big picture from the small?

This is good Bambi. We are all very proud of you.

]]> By: Jane Austen http://aaron-ng.info/blog/a-real-grassroots-initiative-by-bloggers.html/comment-page-1#comment-17677 Jane Austen Sat, 03 May 2008 03:14:33 +0000 http://aaron-ng.info/blog/a-real-grassroots-initiative-by-bloggers.html#comment-17677 Coeey all, The one that really swung me over to their side was this one. You can find the full interview. herehttp://singaporedaily.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/sgdaily-roundup-what%e2%80%99s-hot-in-week-17/#comment-1902, it looks like a many parter and its quite detailed. I am sorry, I am pasting whole chunks of it, but if I edit it, the point somehow loses its meaning. This came to me by ordinary slow mail. I have searched through the whole archive in the online citizen and even Yawning bread's site. Nowhere are we even given the alternative and counter view. What remains very ironical is this. These 15 bloggers claim deregulation = freedom, but why are even censoring this type of material from their sites, isn't it important? Dont we have a right to know. "THE FALLACY OF COMMUNITY REGULATION – PART 3B / THE FINAL CHAPTER Question: Darkness isnt a deregulated net logically better than one that’s regulated? Because its more flexible, less draconian and perhaps even more democratic. Answer: More flexible blah blah. Hey, I dont know where you got that from. To me that’s just a marketing tag line that most people buy into without really thinking about it. I don’t believe life is so simple. You don’t foreclose on lets say communism and automatically get happy democracy. That only happens in the movies. This we saw when the USSR collapsed, it did not produce good as much as a tsunami of bad that brought with it; run away inflation, transmigration; balkanization which even fueled partisan and sectarian divide which mushroomed into a civil war. To a limited extent this was also what’s currently unfolding in Iraq; decamp from dictatorship and instead of happy democracy, what you get instead is closer to a self styled Iranian theocracy – the sum of all our fears. So we need to be very careful; just because the G-15 have a nice logo and it comes with pad lock that’s half open, you mean that’s all it takes to persuade your intellect, we are going to get a better net? That’s why I believe the question really boils down to a mechanical analysis when the G-15 say, we are going to deregulate it can only mean we will get a better net, if the means remains sound; but how sound is it; when 94% of the bloggers weren’t even given an opportunity to participate in the process? This is very different from don’t want to participate. I have to be crystal clear here. There is no way of participating because at no time did the proponents of G-15 even provision for anon bloggers to do so without compromising their elemental right to privacy – so even from the word go, you got the cart before the horse – how the hell are you going to make any progress, I have absolutely no idea; where is the freer so called net in all this. Because I can argue when you deny and that’s what they did, not deliberately but by design the statistical majority then how does that even raise the bar on freedom? " I really cannot see how far the 15 bloggers can go if they have to grapple with points as scapel sharp as this? How? Though I dont agree with the 15 bloggers. I dont agree that a poll should be conducted. This will only embarrass many and in future discourage the spirit of volunteerism. I hope all bloggers will unite despite our differences. Coeey all,

The one that really swung me over to their side was this one. You can find the full interview. herehttp://singaporedaily.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/sgdaily-roundup-what%e2%80%99s-hot-in-week-17/#comment-1902, it looks like a many parter and its quite detailed. I am sorry, I am pasting whole chunks of it, but if I edit it, the point somehow loses its meaning. This came to me by ordinary slow mail. I have searched through the whole archive in the online citizen and even Yawning bread’s site. Nowhere are we even given the alternative and counter view. What remains very ironical is this. These 15 bloggers claim deregulation = freedom, but why are even censoring this type of material from their sites, isn’t it important? Dont we have a right to know.

“THE FALLACY OF COMMUNITY REGULATION – PART 3B / THE FINAL CHAPTER

Question: Darkness isnt a deregulated net logically better than one that’s regulated? Because its more flexible, less draconian and perhaps even more democratic.

Answer: More flexible blah blah. Hey, I dont know where you got that from. To me that’s just a marketing tag line that most people buy into without really thinking about it. I don’t believe life is so simple. You don’t foreclose on lets say communism and automatically get happy democracy. That only happens in the movies. This we saw when the USSR collapsed, it did not produce good as much as a tsunami of bad that brought with it; run away inflation, transmigration; balkanization which even fueled partisan and sectarian divide which mushroomed into a civil war. To a limited extent this was also what’s currently unfolding in Iraq; decamp from dictatorship and instead of happy democracy, what you get instead is closer to a self styled Iranian theocracy – the sum of all our fears.

So we need to be very careful; just because the G-15 have a nice logo and it comes with pad lock that’s half open, you mean that’s all it takes to persuade your intellect, we are going to get a better net?

That’s why I believe the question really boils down to a mechanical analysis when the G-15 say, we are going to deregulate it can only mean we will get a better net, if the means remains sound; but how sound is it; when 94% of the bloggers weren’t even given an opportunity to participate in the process? This is very different from don’t want to participate. I have to be crystal clear here. There is no way of participating because at no time did the proponents of G-15 even provision for anon bloggers to do so without compromising their elemental right to privacy – so even from the word go, you got the cart before the horse – how the hell are you going to make any progress, I have absolutely no idea; where is the freer so called net in all this. Because I can argue when you deny and that’s what they did, not deliberately but by design the statistical majority then how does that even raise the bar on freedom? ”

I really cannot see how far the 15 bloggers can go if they have to grapple with points as scapel sharp as this? How? Though I dont agree with the 15 bloggers. I dont agree that a poll should be conducted. This will only embarrass many and in future discourage the spirit of volunteerism.

I hope all bloggers will unite despite our differences.

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