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	<title>Comments on: Government will not take investment risks on behalf of CPF members</title>
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	<description>Comments, opinions and an occasional ramble</description>
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		<title>By: Aaron Ng</title>
		<link>http://aaron-ng.info/blog/government-will-not-take-investment-risks-on-behalf-of-cpf-members.html/comment-page-1#comment-16643</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Ng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2007 07:51:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aaron-ng.info/blog/government-will-not-take-investment-risks-on-behalf-of-cpf-members.html#comment-16643</guid>
		<description>Lucky,

Apologies for the late reply. I have been very busy.

I think you should read my entry more carefully. I never said the government SHOULD NOT invest the money of CPF members. I only gave reasons why I think the government is not doing it. And, I never said anything about whether the reasons are good or bad. So stop jumping to conclusions and saying that my entry is poorly researched. Your last comment and my entry are apples and oranges. We are talking about different things.

Now to deal with your subject, I totally agree with you that professional fund managers will be able to give good returns. If we are to adopt this model, every CPF member will have to ask themselves whether they are prepared to take risk of loss. Can they stomach seeing their investment increase 24% in one year and then -15% in another year? I know that in theory the long term figure should be positive if the money was wisely invested but the problem is, not everyone is like you who can see long term.

Sure, the government might have been borrowing cheaply from citizens. I don&#039;t deny that. However, the verdict is not out on whether CPF members are willing to tie their returns to GIC&#039;s performance. I may have the stomach, but I can&#039;t say so for my mum or dad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lucky,</p>
<p>Apologies for the late reply. I have been very busy.</p>
<p>I think you should read my entry more carefully. I never said the government SHOULD NOT invest the money of CPF members. I only gave reasons why I think the government is not doing it. And, I never said anything about whether the reasons are good or bad. So stop jumping to conclusions and saying that my entry is poorly researched. Your last comment and my entry are apples and oranges. We are talking about different things.</p>
<p>Now to deal with your subject, I totally agree with you that professional fund managers will be able to give good returns. If we are to adopt this model, every CPF member will have to ask themselves whether they are prepared to take risk of loss. Can they stomach seeing their investment increase 24% in one year and then -15% in another year? I know that in theory the long term figure should be positive if the money was wisely invested but the problem is, not everyone is like you who can see long term.</p>
<p>Sure, the government might have been borrowing cheaply from citizens. I don&#8217;t deny that. However, the verdict is not out on whether CPF members are willing to tie their returns to GIC&#8217;s performance. I may have the stomach, but I can&#8217;t say so for my mum or dad.</p>
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		<title>By: Lucky Tan</title>
		<link>http://aaron-ng.info/blog/government-will-not-take-investment-risks-on-behalf-of-cpf-members.html/comment-page-1#comment-16635</link>
		<dc:creator>Lucky Tan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2007 08:10:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aaron-ng.info/blog/government-will-not-take-investment-risks-on-behalf-of-cpf-members.html#comment-16635</guid>
		<description>There is a simple way to do this and the PAP govt won&#039;t do it because it likes to borrow our CPF money at 2.5%.

List a number of highly diversified index linked products, such as global equities indexes, Asian equities, N. American Equites, etc. these are index-linked products so can be run with low fees &amp; administrative charges. Along with these offer Singaporeans risk free 2.5% something like Fixed Deposit. 

The simply let the CPF account hold choose his mixed. He can go risk free or 60-40. No reasonable human being will blame the govt if he loses money on an index fund especially if he can also choose a risk free option which can be a default choice.

By restricting the account holder to 2.5%, the govt guarantees the person will have insufficient to retire at a decent age and is doomed to a prolonged work life. 

This has been suggested many many times. The PAP govt refuse to do it because it wants to have access to  lots of money at 2.5% for its GIC. ...GIC money we will never see until the day we die.

Anyone who believes the PAP govt explanation about how they are reasonable in giving 2.5% risk free is a fool. Aaron Ng if you read my comment and still think the way you wrote in blog posting, I don&#039;t mean to be rude but your posting is poorly researched....

To add to this the Chilean govt put the pension funds in the hands of professionals for management and returned an average of 11.8% for a period of 18 years since it started.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a simple way to do this and the PAP govt won&#8217;t do it because it likes to borrow our CPF money at 2.5%.</p>
<p>List a number of highly diversified index linked products, such as global equities indexes, Asian equities, N. American Equites, etc. these are index-linked products so can be run with low fees &amp; administrative charges. Along with these offer Singaporeans risk free 2.5% something like Fixed Deposit. </p>
<p>The simply let the CPF account hold choose his mixed. He can go risk free or 60-40. No reasonable human being will blame the govt if he loses money on an index fund especially if he can also choose a risk free option which can be a default choice.</p>
<p>By restricting the account holder to 2.5%, the govt guarantees the person will have insufficient to retire at a decent age and is doomed to a prolonged work life. </p>
<p>This has been suggested many many times. The PAP govt refuse to do it because it wants to have access to  lots of money at 2.5% for its GIC. &#8230;GIC money we will never see until the day we die.</p>
<p>Anyone who believes the PAP govt explanation about how they are reasonable in giving 2.5% risk free is a fool. Aaron Ng if you read my comment and still think the way you wrote in blog posting, I don&#8217;t mean to be rude but your posting is poorly researched&#8230;.</p>
<p>To add to this the Chilean govt put the pension funds in the hands of professionals for management and returned an average of 11.8% for a period of 18 years since it started.</p>
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		<title>By: peasantsgetowned</title>
		<link>http://aaron-ng.info/blog/government-will-not-take-investment-risks-on-behalf-of-cpf-members.html/comment-page-1#comment-16627</link>
		<dc:creator>peasantsgetowned</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2007 09:55:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aaron-ng.info/blog/government-will-not-take-investment-risks-on-behalf-of-cpf-members.html#comment-16627</guid>
		<description>If you have read the Sunday Times yesterday, do lookout for a quote from one of the MPs of Tampines GRC who mentioned that he cannot understand how the Government can invest the money of Singaporeans and profit from it yet tell them that they cannot take care of us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you have read the Sunday Times yesterday, do lookout for a quote from one of the MPs of Tampines GRC who mentioned that he cannot understand how the Government can invest the money of Singaporeans and profit from it yet tell them that they cannot take care of us.</p>
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		<title>By: Shareholder</title>
		<link>http://aaron-ng.info/blog/government-will-not-take-investment-risks-on-behalf-of-cpf-members.html/comment-page-1#comment-16626</link>
		<dc:creator>Shareholder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2007 03:17:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aaron-ng.info/blog/government-will-not-take-investment-risks-on-behalf-of-cpf-members.html#comment-16626</guid>
		<description>I do not sgree to the view that Govt is a bank and we are depositor. Depositor can withdraw their capital anytime, so return should be lesser like that of a fixed Deposit. We are long term shareholder who will put our money in it for 40 years. Such long term investment should get a much higher return even if it is a very conservative potfolio with compound interest. It don&#039;t have to be a risky investment and in the long run conservative potfolio does not give negative return. Don&#039;t be fooled by them and buy what they told you, Aaron. Our huge reserve is built up from CPF and taxes from the people as capital in the first place. We should be given a fair share. No need to be as high as their return of Termasek or GIC but at least it should be higher than what they proposed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not sgree to the view that Govt is a bank and we are depositor. Depositor can withdraw their capital anytime, so return should be lesser like that of a fixed Deposit. We are long term shareholder who will put our money in it for 40 years. Such long term investment should get a much higher return even if it is a very conservative potfolio with compound interest. It don&#8217;t have to be a risky investment and in the long run conservative potfolio does not give negative return. Don&#8217;t be fooled by them and buy what they told you, Aaron. Our huge reserve is built up from CPF and taxes from the people as capital in the first place. We should be given a fair share. No need to be as high as their return of Termasek or GIC but at least it should be higher than what they proposed.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://aaron-ng.info/blog/government-will-not-take-investment-risks-on-behalf-of-cpf-members.html/comment-page-1#comment-16624</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Sep 2007 01:07:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aaron-ng.info/blog/government-will-not-take-investment-risks-on-behalf-of-cpf-members.html#comment-16624</guid>
		<description>yh is right. The Government already invests. It simply wishes to take on the risk and reap the rewards of doing so, while paying citizens a small and stable interest rate for their funds.

To be cynical, you can say that it squeezes citizens of better long term returns, so that when they ask for help, it can do so with ample funds and thus appear to be generous.

From another point of view, you can say that the Government operates much like a bank. It guarantees a small fixed return on your &#039;savings account&#039; or &#039;fixed deposit&#039; (CPF funds fall somewhere in between those two types), and uses the funds thus raised to make profits by investing in projects and stocks. It has to be &#039;compensated&#039; for taking on the additional risk, just like a bank does. Or does it????</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yh is right. The Government already invests. It simply wishes to take on the risk and reap the rewards of doing so, while paying citizens a small and stable interest rate for their funds.</p>
<p>To be cynical, you can say that it squeezes citizens of better long term returns, so that when they ask for help, it can do so with ample funds and thus appear to be generous.</p>
<p>From another point of view, you can say that the Government operates much like a bank. It guarantees a small fixed return on your &#8216;savings account&#8217; or &#8216;fixed deposit&#8217; (CPF funds fall somewhere in between those two types), and uses the funds thus raised to make profits by investing in projects and stocks. It has to be &#8216;compensated&#8217; for taking on the additional risk, just like a bank does. Or does it????</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://aaron-ng.info/blog/government-will-not-take-investment-risks-on-behalf-of-cpf-members.html/comment-page-1#comment-16623</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Sep 2007 12:36:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aaron-ng.info/blog/government-will-not-take-investment-risks-on-behalf-of-cpf-members.html#comment-16623</guid>
		<description>The issue should not be seen in black and white. Risks can be shared, for example a conservative person can choose to hold 70% bonds and 30% Temasek linked funds, while the aggressive investor   can choose 70% Temasek linked funds and 30% Bonds. Why should Singaporeans be condemned to poor returns?

One should realised there is risks associated with &quot;Risk free returns&quot;. Without the power of compounded interest,  we could well see another generation of Singaporeans with higher retirement age and insufficient retirement funds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The issue should not be seen in black and white. Risks can be shared, for example a conservative person can choose to hold 70% bonds and 30% Temasek linked funds, while the aggressive investor   can choose 70% Temasek linked funds and 30% Bonds. Why should Singaporeans be condemned to poor returns?</p>
<p>One should realised there is risks associated with &#8220;Risk free returns&#8221;. Without the power of compounded interest,  we could well see another generation of Singaporeans with higher retirement age and insufficient retirement funds.</p>
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		<title>By: yh</title>
		<link>http://aaron-ng.info/blog/government-will-not-take-investment-risks-on-behalf-of-cpf-members.html/comment-page-1#comment-16617</link>
		<dc:creator>yh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 14:43:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aaron-ng.info/blog/government-will-not-take-investment-risks-on-behalf-of-cpf-members.html#comment-16617</guid>
		<description>dun tok cock,
you can already invest money in your ordinary acc.

aaron,
i think the money is invested. The problem is that the government does not want to share the profit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dun tok cock,<br />
you can already invest money in your ordinary acc.</p>
<p>aaron,<br />
i think the money is invested. The problem is that the government does not want to share the profit.</p>
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		<title>By: dun tok cock</title>
		<link>http://aaron-ng.info/blog/government-will-not-take-investment-risks-on-behalf-of-cpf-members.html/comment-page-1#comment-16616</link>
		<dc:creator>dun tok cock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:58:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aaron-ng.info/blog/government-will-not-take-investment-risks-on-behalf-of-cpf-members.html#comment-16616</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think I has to go down the temasek route

Why cant they just set up a global index fund for CPF account holders so that they can invest a portion of their CPF in a portfolio of stock, reits and bonds indexes all over the world as pre-selected by the CPF  board and the $ cannot be taken out until 65 just like special account.

Of course the risk must be spelled out clearly to all those involved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think I has to go down the temasek route</p>
<p>Why cant they just set up a global index fund for CPF account holders so that they can invest a portion of their CPF in a portfolio of stock, reits and bonds indexes all over the world as pre-selected by the CPF  board and the $ cannot be taken out until 65 just like special account.</p>
<p>Of course the risk must be spelled out clearly to all those involved.</p>
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		<title>By: Kway Teow Man</title>
		<link>http://aaron-ng.info/blog/government-will-not-take-investment-risks-on-behalf-of-cpf-members.html/comment-page-1#comment-16615</link>
		<dc:creator>Kway Teow Man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:20:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aaron-ng.info/blog/government-will-not-take-investment-risks-on-behalf-of-cpf-members.html#comment-16615</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Imagine if it was the CPF Board that invested in Shin Corp and not Temasek&lt;/i&gt;.

Well said. That&#039;s the crux of the problem.  :eek:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Imagine if it was the CPF Board that invested in Shin Corp and not Temasek</i>.</p>
<p>Well said. That&#8217;s the crux of the problem.  <img src='http://aaron-ng.info/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_surprised.gif' alt=':eek:' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Daily SG: 21 Sep 2007 &#171; The Singapore Daily</title>
		<link>http://aaron-ng.info/blog/government-will-not-take-investment-risks-on-behalf-of-cpf-members.html/comment-page-1#comment-16614</link>
		<dc:creator>Daily SG: 21 Sep 2007 &#171; The Singapore Daily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 09:42:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aaron-ng.info/blog/government-will-not-take-investment-risks-on-behalf-of-cpf-members.html#comment-16614</guid>
		<description>[...] Singapore: More than Marketing is Needed - My plain sunset: Recent CPF Debate - Aaron Ng: Government will not take investment risks on behalf of CPF members - Leong Sze Hian, TOC: Is compulsory Longevity Insurance necessary? - EDMW: Siew Kum Hong&#8217;s [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Singapore: More than Marketing is Needed &#8211; My plain sunset: Recent CPF Debate &#8211; Aaron Ng: Government will not take investment risks on behalf of CPF members &#8211; Leong Sze Hian, TOC: Is compulsory Longevity Insurance necessary? &#8211; EDMW: Siew Kum Hong&#8217;s [...]</p>
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