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	<title>Comments on: Of morals, rights and harm</title>
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	<link>http://aaron-ng.info/blog/of-morals-rights-and-harm.html</link>
	<description>Comments, opinions and an occasional ramble</description>
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		<title>By: guojun</title>
		<link>http://aaron-ng.info/blog/of-morals-rights-and-harm.html/comment-page-1#comment-16893</link>
		<dc:creator>guojun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 12:00:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aaron-ng.info/blog/of-morals-rights-and-harm.html#comment-16893</guid>
		<description>hmm, overestimated? No, religious fundamentalism is not overestimated. Given Singapore&#039;s multicultural nature, you would expect fundamentalism to be kept to a low, because religions have to be inclusive and not exclusive.

Confucian and stereotypical beliefs have been told to us again and again, and now replaced by the term &#039;conservative.&#039; But how do you encourage plurality when &#039;conservativism&#039; is defined so broadly that everyone is conservative? And is everyone conservative? There has been no definition of conservative, so everyone must be. Smart way of representing the people right?

Coming back to religious fundamentalism: i am not saying that fundamentalism is prevalent. I am just saying that fundamentalism in the hands of politicians is especially dangerous, especially because we in Singapore tend to believe that whatever they say has to be followed to the word. I am sure there are fundamentalists in Singapore, who believe that every word of the Bible / Koran or any other religious text is literal truth. However, the danger lies in those who can wield rhetoric like a weapon to sway the masses, namely our law professor NMP. Think about Hitler and the Holocaust, on a much smaller scale.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hmm, overestimated? No, religious fundamentalism is not overestimated. Given Singapore&#8217;s multicultural nature, you would expect fundamentalism to be kept to a low, because religions have to be inclusive and not exclusive.</p>
<p>Confucian and stereotypical beliefs have been told to us again and again, and now replaced by the term &#8216;conservative.&#8217; But how do you encourage plurality when &#8216;conservativism&#8217; is defined so broadly that everyone is conservative? And is everyone conservative? There has been no definition of conservative, so everyone must be. Smart way of representing the people right?</p>
<p>Coming back to religious fundamentalism: i am not saying that fundamentalism is prevalent. I am just saying that fundamentalism in the hands of politicians is especially dangerous, especially because we in Singapore tend to believe that whatever they say has to be followed to the word. I am sure there are fundamentalists in Singapore, who believe that every word of the Bible / Koran or any other religious text is literal truth. However, the danger lies in those who can wield rhetoric like a weapon to sway the masses, namely our law professor NMP. Think about Hitler and the Holocaust, on a much smaller scale.</p>
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		<title>By: RSE</title>
		<link>http://aaron-ng.info/blog/of-morals-rights-and-harm.html/comment-page-1#comment-16892</link>
		<dc:creator>RSE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 09:43:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aaron-ng.info/blog/of-morals-rights-and-harm.html#comment-16892</guid>
		<description>cognitive dissonance,
Haven&#039;t been reading the news lately, I&#039;ve got school and exams are nearing, and I don&#039;t need to get myself depressed by reading the ST :p

No, I don&#039;t have a blog. I&#039;ve always been planning to write one but I keep procrastinating. Some other time? And erm... I never check my email :(.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cognitive dissonance,<br />
Haven&#8217;t been reading the news lately, I&#8217;ve got school and exams are nearing, and I don&#8217;t need to get myself depressed by reading the ST :p</p>
<p>No, I don&#8217;t have a blog. I&#8217;ve always been planning to write one but I keep procrastinating. Some other time? And erm&#8230; I never check my email <img src='http://aaron-ng.info/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> .</p>
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		<title>By: sam</title>
		<link>http://aaron-ng.info/blog/of-morals-rights-and-harm.html/comment-page-1#comment-16891</link>
		<dc:creator>sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 09:35:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aaron-ng.info/blog/of-morals-rights-and-harm.html#comment-16891</guid>
		<description>actually religious fundamentalism is overestimated in singapore, there are other less obvious factors such as ingrained confucian beliefs and stereotypical beliefs (independent of religion) we have in singapore. we are after all, multi-cultural.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>actually religious fundamentalism is overestimated in singapore, there are other less obvious factors such as ingrained confucian beliefs and stereotypical beliefs (independent of religion) we have in singapore. we are after all, multi-cultural.</p>
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		<title>By: guojun</title>
		<link>http://aaron-ng.info/blog/of-morals-rights-and-harm.html/comment-page-1#comment-16889</link>
		<dc:creator>guojun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 16:19:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aaron-ng.info/blog/of-morals-rights-and-harm.html#comment-16889</guid>
		<description>The Janadas Devan article was good. Sounds a bit Lucky Tan-like, but in a good sense. Either way, so now religious fundamentalism is part of Singaporean politics? I thought we were worshipping money already. Heh...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Janadas Devan article was good. Sounds a bit Lucky Tan-like, but in a good sense. Either way, so now religious fundamentalism is part of Singaporean politics? I thought we were worshipping money already. Heh&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Daily SG: 29 Oct 2007 &#171; The Singapore Daily</title>
		<link>http://aaron-ng.info/blog/of-morals-rights-and-harm.html/comment-page-1#comment-16887</link>
		<dc:creator>Daily SG: 29 Oct 2007 &#171; The Singapore Daily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 00:06:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aaron-ng.info/blog/of-morals-rights-and-harm.html#comment-16887</guid>
		<description>[...] a self-righteous NMP out to persecute - Comfortably Numb: Blaming the victims  - Hear ye! Hear ye!: Of morals, rights and harm - The Online Citizen: NMP’s views at odds with AIDS relief research paper - Theory.isthereason: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a self-righteous NMP out to persecute &#8211; Comfortably Numb: Blaming the victims  &#8211; Hear ye! Hear ye!: Of morals, rights and harm &#8211; The Online Citizen: NMP’s views at odds with AIDS relief research paper &#8211; Theory.isthereason: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: cognitivedissonance</title>
		<link>http://aaron-ng.info/blog/of-morals-rights-and-harm.html/comment-page-1#comment-16885</link>
		<dc:creator>cognitivedissonance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Oct 2007 11:33:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aaron-ng.info/blog/of-morals-rights-and-harm.html#comment-16885</guid>
		<description>RSE,

:)

On totally unrelated topics, the Janadas Devan article published in Saturday Insight section, on Thio&#039;s speech, was amusing.  And I have long admired your comments on Singapore Angle.  Do you have a blog?  Or, email me?  Hope to get in touch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RSE,</p>
<p> <img src='http://aaron-ng.info/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>On totally unrelated topics, the Janadas Devan article published in Saturday Insight section, on Thio&#8217;s speech, was amusing.  And I have long admired your comments on Singapore Angle.  Do you have a blog?  Or, email me?  Hope to get in touch.</p>
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		<title>By: yeo hiap seng</title>
		<link>http://aaron-ng.info/blog/of-morals-rights-and-harm.html/comment-page-1#comment-16884</link>
		<dc:creator>yeo hiap seng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Oct 2007 06:45:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aaron-ng.info/blog/of-morals-rights-and-harm.html#comment-16884</guid>
		<description>We better pretend, we all know what we say abt them can be very sensitive one! I was not here, pls erase this away. Kam siah!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We better pretend, we all know what we say abt them can be very sensitive one! I was not here, pls erase this away. Kam siah!</p>
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		<title>By: yeo hiap seng</title>
		<link>http://aaron-ng.info/blog/of-morals-rights-and-harm.html/comment-page-1#comment-16883</link>
		<dc:creator>yeo hiap seng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Oct 2007 06:44:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aaron-ng.info/blog/of-morals-rights-and-harm.html#comment-16883</guid>
		<description>Wau lau! Verli confusing leh. I have to agree with Xian lah. The only body who is making it like ABCDEFGHI like the same way he killed the Singapore Angle is the Darkneess character. He take 377A. Find one spot and kill it dead. The rest is just giving me a headache. I think, I am going to take a holiday from myself and the net and come back after this whole thing blows over.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wau lau! Verli confusing leh. I have to agree with Xian lah. The only body who is making it like ABCDEFGHI like the same way he killed the Singapore Angle is the Darkneess character. He take 377A. Find one spot and kill it dead. The rest is just giving me a headache. I think, I am going to take a holiday from myself and the net and come back after this whole thing blows over.</p>
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		<title>By: RSE</title>
		<link>http://aaron-ng.info/blog/of-morals-rights-and-harm.html/comment-page-1#comment-16881</link>
		<dc:creator>RSE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Oct 2007 05:54:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aaron-ng.info/blog/of-morals-rights-and-harm.html#comment-16881</guid>
		<description>cognitive dissonance,
I&#039;m not saying keep quiet. Keeping quiet is the last thing you should do.
I&#039;m saying, don&#039;t pretend that there is rationality where there is none. Don&#039;t patronize them. They aren&#039;t kids without the cognitive ability to tell the difference between fantasy and reality (no offense to kids). Call them on their bullshit, as you would for any thinking adult. Above all, don&#039;t confuse the onlookers.
As for Thio Li-Ann, what can I say? Rehashing WBG&#039;s arguments with better grammar and rhetoric does not make them any less based on lies, inconsistencies and self-delusion. She seems to also have picked up his victim-complex too. :roll:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cognitive dissonance,<br />
I&#8217;m not saying keep quiet. Keeping quiet is the last thing you should do.<br />
I&#8217;m saying, don&#8217;t pretend that there is rationality where there is none. Don&#8217;t patronize them. They aren&#8217;t kids without the cognitive ability to tell the difference between fantasy and reality (no offense to kids). Call them on their bullshit, as you would for any thinking adult. Above all, don&#8217;t confuse the onlookers.<br />
As for Thio Li-Ann, what can I say? Rehashing WBG&#8217;s arguments with better grammar and rhetoric does not make them any less based on lies, inconsistencies and self-delusion. She seems to also have picked up his victim-complex too. <img src='http://aaron-ng.info/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif' alt=':roll:' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: cognitivedissonance</title>
		<link>http://aaron-ng.info/blog/of-morals-rights-and-harm.html/comment-page-1#comment-16880</link>
		<dc:creator>cognitivedissonance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Oct 2007 04:07:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aaron-ng.info/blog/of-morals-rights-and-harm.html#comment-16880</guid>
		<description>RSE,

Acknowledged :)

I&#039;m a little more keen on debate than you are because following whatshisname, &quot;the only solution to bad speech is more speech&quot;.  We try to restore the dignity of the gays to an equal basis with what we take for granted as heterosexuals, following the ideas of non-discrimination and justice. Such an exercise necessarily also involves respecting the dignity of our opponents no matter how irrational they are, and part of respecting the dignity of our opponents is to examine any possible rational bases for their arguments.... Let me say a few words more. 

Generally I find the anti-repeal side quite hysterical in saying it will lead to a slippery slope of gay marriages and adoption.  Those are fresh issues involving the legal rights of marriage and inheritance, and the well-being of the children being adopted.  Clearly very far away from repealing 377A.  But the link between repealing 377A and seeing more mild PDA from the gays is not as remote.  The anti-repeal side considers 377A useful in &#039;signposting&#039; their disapproval of even this mild public behaviour.  The pro-repeal side doesn&#039;t consider 377A useful at all in any way, for various reasons and extents of pro-gay attitudes.  I am looking for a middle ground that has a rational basis, e.g. staunch Christians who are pro-repeal believe that although their religion considers all homosexual behaviour to be a sin, they &#039;judge not, lest [they] be judged&#039;, and on a deeper level they know they should not compel non-believers to act in accordance with their religion just as they do not forcibly convert non-believers. I am also questioning whether being pro-repeal has any meaning if the pro-repealer in question is simply going to slap public nuisance laws on mild PDA between gays - repeal one law, just use another law for the same purposes of discrimination, seems very inconsistent.

What am I trying to say?  Pandering to the homophobia of the anti-repeal crowd is bad - it misuses the coercive powers of the State to inflict suffering on another group of people simply because some people do not like them.  So my comments throughout this post of Aaron&#039;s is not to suggest that we should cater to the anti-repeal people&#039;s dislikes by inflicting pain and force on the innocent group.  Instead, it is simply to ask the pro-repeal people, what they think of mild PDA for the gays.  As someone has said, PM Lee has staked his career on the non-(proactive)enforcement of 377A. His head is on the line if he breaks his word for no good reason. In this light, what would people, especially the pro-repeal people, think of mild PDA between gays?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RSE,</p>
<p>Acknowledged <img src='http://aaron-ng.info/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I&#8217;m a little more keen on debate than you are because following whatshisname, &#8220;the only solution to bad speech is more speech&#8221;.  We try to restore the dignity of the gays to an equal basis with what we take for granted as heterosexuals, following the ideas of non-discrimination and justice. Such an exercise necessarily also involves respecting the dignity of our opponents no matter how irrational they are, and part of respecting the dignity of our opponents is to examine any possible rational bases for their arguments&#8230;. Let me say a few words more. </p>
<p>Generally I find the anti-repeal side quite hysterical in saying it will lead to a slippery slope of gay marriages and adoption.  Those are fresh issues involving the legal rights of marriage and inheritance, and the well-being of the children being adopted.  Clearly very far away from repealing 377A.  But the link between repealing 377A and seeing more mild PDA from the gays is not as remote.  The anti-repeal side considers 377A useful in &#8217;signposting&#8217; their disapproval of even this mild public behaviour.  The pro-repeal side doesn&#8217;t consider 377A useful at all in any way, for various reasons and extents of pro-gay attitudes.  I am looking for a middle ground that has a rational basis, e.g. staunch Christians who are pro-repeal believe that although their religion considers all homosexual behaviour to be a sin, they &#8216;judge not, lest [they] be judged&#8217;, and on a deeper level they know they should not compel non-believers to act in accordance with their religion just as they do not forcibly convert non-believers. I am also questioning whether being pro-repeal has any meaning if the pro-repealer in question is simply going to slap public nuisance laws on mild PDA between gays &#8211; repeal one law, just use another law for the same purposes of discrimination, seems very inconsistent.</p>
<p>What am I trying to say?  Pandering to the homophobia of the anti-repeal crowd is bad &#8211; it misuses the coercive powers of the State to inflict suffering on another group of people simply because some people do not like them.  So my comments throughout this post of Aaron&#8217;s is not to suggest that we should cater to the anti-repeal people&#8217;s dislikes by inflicting pain and force on the innocent group.  Instead, it is simply to ask the pro-repeal people, what they think of mild PDA for the gays.  As someone has said, PM Lee has staked his career on the non-(proactive)enforcement of 377A. His head is on the line if he breaks his word for no good reason. In this light, what would people, especially the pro-repeal people, think of mild PDA between gays?</p>
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