Comments, opinions and an occasional ramble
Why I swear never to join Young PAP
One cannot claim that he is a taxpayer and should benefit from the likes of those in a PAP constituency when he voted for the opposition.
Joel Leong, Young PAP Member
By Joel Leong’s argument, a taxpayer who did not vote PAP gets no benefits from the government. He clearly does not understand the difference between a political party and the government. He should either go pick up an elementary political science textbook or read an entry I wrote a few months back called “Politics 101: Political Parties and Government“.
And, why should people who vote opposition in PAP constiuencies be given the same benefits as others who voted PAP? Why discriminate between PAP and non-PAP constituency? Zyberzitizen has written on this, so I’m not going to talk too much about that.
To sum up, if this is the kind of people that are going to become future MPs and ministers, I am packing my bags and leaving Singapore. Thankfully, I don’t think I need to. Most MPs and Ministers are handpicked from intelligent people in the private and public sector, and not YPAP. Thank god.
This is why I swear never to join YPAP. I might just lose some of the precious little intellect I have. Hmm.. it might not be a bad thing after all. In return, I might gain some strength by carrying lots of balls.
| Print article | This entry was posted by Aaron Ng on 27/03/2007 at 9:48 pm, and is filed under Ramblings. Follow any responses to this post through RSS 2.0. You can leave a response or trackback from your own site. |


about 4 years ago
The key word is OFFICIALLY…hehe
about 4 years ago
then why do reputable newspapers raise doubts about some country’s OFFICIAL economic data?
hmmm… some food for thought.
about 4 years ago
Dee,
The Jack Russel isn’t mine. I love dogs though. I would like to have one in future.
And if you’re wondering why I’ve been relatively quiet, it’s because readers have replied so fast and furious that my points have been taken. There’re alot of intelligent people out there.
about 4 years ago
Kebab revolution:
maybe you should turn vegetarian.
Please show by way of direct URL links to examples of opposition in other nations submitting alternative budgets. Thanks.
about 4 years ago
Who is Salim?,
salim is either a ninja imposter of WP’s salim or an unrelated salim or some salim from (Y)PAP.
Otherwise, WP should consider sacking him for mindlessly stirring up trouble for WP by speaking up for YPAP against the electorate, not unlike a traitor.
about 4 years ago
Opps, the above Who is Salim is me
about 4 years ago
outstanding.
i feel, first and foremost, you vote for your MP because you need someone to take care of your neighbourhood. that’s why it’s called a constituency. what good is an MP and all the nationwide policies when your neighbourhood smells like urine?
MPs firstly represent their constituency. voters need to get that idea into their thick skulls. having a minister contesting in your GRC means nothing if that minister cannot do anything for you in your neighbourhood. if the PAP team loses, they can always find another person to be the minister.
people who don’t vote for PAP candidates may not be necessarily against the government or PAP in general. PAP may be a nice dream team of talented individuals, but you get the occasional shithead who knows shit and does shit for society.
about 4 years ago
I now have another reason to swear by against joining the PAP. Another YPAP dude (a lawyer of all people) tries to paint being a minister as a specialized profession that few people can do, therefore ministers deserve tons of money. The logic baffles me. Read it here:
http://youngpapblog.blogspot.com/2007/03/green-eyed-monster.html
I give up on YPAP.
about 4 years ago
Kebab Revolutions,
>>Where is the asset enhancement going to come from, with an opposition government in power?
The same place from where it comes from now, of course – Singapore’s reserves.
Do you know what you’re hinting at? It seems to me that you are saying that the PAP government is holding on to the resources for asset enhancement and if they are voted out, they will take these resources with them! I hope that the PAP doesn’t sue you for defamation for a question as loaded as that.
>>Has the WP submitted an alternative Budget, in the way that many Oppositions in First World nations do? Has Chee Soon Juan told us his plans for running the economy?
No, and no. With even the President, ostensibly a check to ensure that the government in power does not abuse the reserves in Singapore’s coffers, I would be surprised if any political party, save the PAP, actually told us what they would do with resources we may or may not even have.
“The man in the street doesn’t know whether he’s on thin ice or solid rock. ” – Dr Toh Chin Chye, former Deputy Prime Minister
>>It is easy to promise the sky. Delivery and implementation can only be tested once a party is in power, but it helps if they at least provide a plan on how they’ll do it.
Once again, with even the president being hampered by the government when he wanted to know how much reserves we have, do you seriously believe that any Opposition will come up with any plans without any concrete information on how many resources we have left?
>>Without a Shadow Budget or a plan, how do we even know if there will be fiscal surpluses for asset enhancement?
You should ask the PAP about the fiscal surpluses first before taking any further steps forward.
about 4 years ago
3rd paragraph should read
No, and no. With even the President, ostensibly a check to ensure that the government in power does not abuse the reserves in Singapore’s coffers, being hampered by the government in his efforts to find out the amount of resources there are, I would be surprised if any political party, save the PAP, actually told us what they would do with resources we may or may not even have.
I had left out “being hampered…there are”. Apologies.
about 4 years ago
Dear Aaron:
Actually there is a marked difference between YoungPAP and the senior, PAP, itself. Both are different kettle of fishes.
BTW, I own a Jack Russell terrier.
Yours sincerely,
Dr Dee
about 4 years ago
Dear Aaron:
The point about profession is not the point. It’s about performance indicators. These top CFOs/CEOs earn their massively large dough through their KPIs, they delivered the goods. You have a professional with zero returns, or worse negative returns, so does he deserve the pay? Perhaps, this lawyer dude should take an excursion through the human resource department of any big company.
Yours sincerely,
Dr Dee
about 4 years ago
Wrong.
At the end of each Parliamentary term, net surpluses enter the reserves. This is why payouts like the Progress Package come at the end of Parliamentary cycles, prior to elections — sharing the gains accumulated over a term of administration.
If an Opposition government mismanages the budget, the economy will crash and there won’t be the money for asset enhancement or anything else.
A Little Bird Atop the Canopy said:
about 4 years ago
Dear Kebab:
You conviniently avoided another important thing. The GST hikes after the elections. With the GST hikes, the government would have gotten back more than what they have given out for the progress packages. Yeah, it’s 7% GST now.
Secondly, you mentioned “If an Opposition government mismanages the budget, the economy will crash and there won’t be the money for asset enhancement or anything else.” First and foremost, this is a hyperbolic scenario. It’s going to take ages before an opposition government gets to manage the budget and we do not know what’s the end product. Secondly, you are too one-dimensional to attribute economy crashing to budget management. Our economy can be affected by externuating circumstances like the SARS crisis. You can also refer to a recent example, the 1997 East Asian financial crisis that started in South Korea and Thailand that resulted in a butterfly effect throughout Asia.
Thirdly, a budget deficit isn’t all that bad. The government may spend money to stimulate the economy, investing the money to create conditions that allow businesses to grow and enterprises to develop. What so bad about it?
Lastly, you asked WP and Dr Chee Soon Juan to table an alternative budget, but as commentators have pointed out earlier, up to now we don’t have much information on the details of budget. No information, how to table an alternative based on the current circumstances? You must remember that even a certain President Ong Teng Cheong, a Mr Lee Kuan Yew loyalist, did not manage to obtain exact figures of the reserves.
http://www.asiaweek.com/asiaweek/magazine/2000/0310/nat.singapore.ongiv.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ong_Teng_Cheong
If a PAP man like President Ong Teng Cheong failed to obtain exact details of our reserves, what more can you expect from opposition figures?
Yours sincerely,
Dr Dee
about 4 years ago
Let’s get one thing very clear. People vote for the opposition in Singapore not because they want an alternate or alternative governing power. Therefore this call for the opposition to come up with their own budgets or economic plans merely seeks to obscure the discussion.
Having some form of opposition in govt to provide a level of checks on the dominant ruling party is good enough for people. One would be hard pressed to find a Singaporean who wants the PAP to be completely out of Parliament… but you do find a lot who do not want the ruling elite to have unfetterd power,
about 4 years ago
Dr Dee wrote:
Your claim of “no information” is wrong. The selfsame Wikipedia article you mentioned, states the discussion was on fixed immovable assets, among others. It is a big leap from there to claim there is “no information”.
If there is “no information” (as you have written), then what are the figures in each annual Budget, if not information? Figures including a breakdown of tax revenue sources and the spending plans of individual Ministries.
Even if we accept your false claim that there is “no information”, one does not need exact numbers to state a philosophy on direct versus indirect taxation.
One does not need numbers to the last decimal place to formulate a Shadow Budget with positions on whether to have minimum wage, on the progressivity and distribution of CPF contributions, on the amount of welfare and criteria for its allocation, and how that welfare shall be funded.
Fact: Opposition parties in many countries draft Shadow / Alternative Budgets, without recourse to every detail the the incumbent Cabinet has available. (e.g. early 1990s UK Labour and even a small party like the UK Liberal Democrats can draft an Alternative Budget. We see the same with Canada and so on.)
I agree with you that external shocks can put any nation into choppy water. But your reasoning is like saying “I shall leave my door unlocked at night, because if an atom bomb lands on my home it won’t matter anyway.”
about 4 years ago
Francis wrote:
I agree with you that each voter has their own unique perspective on why they have cast their vote.
But if an Opposition party came to power, would they reject their victorious outcome, on grounds that some of these votes were protest votes or a message not amounting to a call for government change?
I think not.
So a vote for an Opposition party is equivalent to a vote for an Opposition administration. The motivations may differ, but when government change occurs as a result, the outcome is the same.
And therefore it is crucial to judge participants by their acumen for governance — especially when multiple electoral wards are contested across the nation.
about 4 years ago
Dear Kebab:
Did you read the Newsweek article, whose link that I have provided? Allow me to qualify myself that when I say information, it’s more than just technical terms like “immovable assets”. It includes numbers, dollars and cents. Before you jump the gun and point fingers at me, accusing me of spreading false information, please at least read the source carefully. Of course I know that there are immovable assets DUH SINCE I QUOTED THE WIKI SOURCE, but how about the dollars and cents?
Allow me to quote the Wikipedia article in its entirety: “However, soon after his election to the presidency in 1993, he became embroiled in a dispute with the government over the access of information regarding Singapore’s financial reserves. The government said it would take 56 man years to produce a dollar-and-cents value of the immovable assets. Ong discussed this with the accountant general and the auditor general and came to a compromise that the government needed to give him only a listing of all the properties that the government owns. It took the government a few months to produce the list. But even then the list was not complete. In all, it took the government three years to come up with the information about the reserves that Ong requested.”
My question to you is that if we don’t know the dollars and cents values of the assets, even if we know that there are immovable assets, how are we going to manage it? How are you going to expect the opposition to table alternative plans? I will be worried if a fund manager manages his assets without knowing the dollars and cents!
Secondly, do you think the current system of governance allows for the formation of a shadow cabinet? I know countries like Australia has a shadow cabinet, but if you have been reading the newspaper articles of late, even the PAP has said that the opposition can come within their ranks.
My question to you is that does our parliamentary system allows the opposition to be the shadow cabinet? First and foremost, do you see 82 opposition members marking 82 PAP candidates in parliament? The reality is that our system of governance has no place for a shadow cabinet. As of now, it’s never a reality to see every PAP candidate being marked by an opposition. I understand the merits of your foreign examples, but you must take into context the circumstances in Singapore.
Yours sincerely,
Dr Dee
about 4 years ago
Kebab wrote “But if an Opposition party came to power, would they reject their victorious outcome, on grounds that some of these votes were protest votes or a message not amounting to a call for government change? I think not.”
Again, you choose to detract from the current state of Singapore’s political evolution/maturity by harping on a hypothetical extreme example which has little bearing to reality. Your point is either conveniently ignorant or is nothing more than a scare tactic which sounds as if the PAP has a slim majority in Parliament when in reality it has an overwhelming dominance. The issue is not about replacing the PAP, it is about some oppposition representation in govt. More specifically to this thread, it is about extraodinary means to keep out even what little opposition representation we do have in govt.
Yes, nearly all Singaporeans agree the PAP has done a fine job administering the country thus far, and there are numerous talented individuals in its rank. However, the price of kicking out a few PAP candidates – even talented ones – for some alternative representation and to establish some form of true checks and balance, is something a stable, mature and developing nation must be prepared to invest in. The alternative you present is complete one-party dominance with all its potential pitfalls – temptations of abuse of power, entrenchment of the mediocrity, pursuit of privileges, dislocation from the wider public, intellectual inbreeding, ec, – that may be detrimental for the nation in the long-run.
“So a vote for an Opposition party is equivalent to a vote for an Opposition administration. The motivations may differ, but when government change occurs as a result, the outcome is the same.”
Again, you make extensive assumptions that presumes only a binary outcome, which is far from the reality of the state of politics in Singapore. The only binary outcome given the stunted state of electoral politics in Singapore is where the PAP is completely dominant or nearly completely dominant in Parliament. Maybe we will progress to a third scenario of a more diluted majority PAP.
Your statement also assumes that any success in Singapore is completely credited to the PAP. A completely arrogant view that downplays the contributions of members of the entire civil service – stat boards, govt agencies, public services, etc. – who are apolitical and contribute a tremendous share of the country’s social and economic progress.
about 4 years ago
Dr Dee wrote:
You do not need to mark all 82 PAP MPs, or even all of the Cabinet, to form a Shadow Administration.
The Lib Dems and Conservatives in the UK, by definition, do not outnumber Labour, which is the dominant party there. Yet they can come up with a Shadow Budget.
This has never stopped First World oppositions from tabling alternative plans, or taking policy or viewpoints on major issues of the day, consistently and all year round.
Absolutely.
The Leader of the Opposition can shadow the PM — and the PM’s portfolio as Minister for Finance. An MP who ran against the Foreign Minister can start outlining a vision for Singapore’s foreign policy — both in Parliament and in public. We have bilateral relations with dozens of other countries, so this should provide plenty of material.
In fact you don’t even need all your Shadow Team to be MPs in office. Officially being part of an Opposition party’s Shadow Team could be a great prelude to a campaign — you can present your views on policy and current affairs and see if history proves them right.
I recognise some commenters here may think I am blindly pro-PAP. I am not a blind supporter — I just have high expectations of people who run the country, or who (depending on how the votes go) might be running the country.
about 4 years ago
Kwokheng:
Yes.
Which is why (if I may repeat what has been said previously) Hougang residents do not get an extra toll, or extra utilities fees.
That’s why Hougang residents also still are covered by the SAF, have policing, have water supply, have buses and MRT.
Hougang residents got the Progress Package, and will get GST rebates in the same way as residents in other areas.
Or does all this not count? In fact not everybody in an HDB block may be in favour of upgrading, so why present it as an entitlement?
But returning to the question on organ donations: If nobody agrees to donate organs, there will be no prospect of a transplant even if you donate one.
The deeper theme behind the question is for all of us to ask ourselves: Are we happy to benefit from a system, while taking an action that might prevent that system from continuing to provide those benefits?
There is no right or wrong answer, but it is important to understand how one has come to a viewpoint.
about 4 years ago
Kwokheng:
I do not know what to make of your e-mail on scholarships. Will ponder about it — it is clearly heartfelt.
I do think the Civil Service can have more incoming recruitment from the private sector — and not just at junior levels. Some two-way flow is beneficial.
about 4 years ago
Francis:
(You wouldn’t be the legendary Francis C., would you?…)
I agree that single party rule without checks and balances can be a problem.
I do not, however, think that it is impossible for a high quality Opposition team to succeed.
While no party can claim a track record without being in power, many First World Oppositions do not wait to come into power before assembling their Shadow Cabinet and Shadow Team. This helps convince the electorate of their competency. Over time, their views on policy and current affairs can be judged — by the electorate and by history.
As mentioned earlier, when an Opposition candidate wins, he does not decline the result because some votes were protest votes.
In fact he welcomes any vote in his direction and sees it as a vote for himself, whatever the voter’s intention in the polling station.
If even Opposition candidates (not just in Singapore, but around the world) take this view of voting, why is it suddenly a travesty when an incumbent says the vote is about choosing MPs and choosing an administration?
Wrong.
There are many good men and women working in the civil service — I will be first to agree with you on this.
But the two go hand in hand. The best political administration will find its ideas stillborn without a good civil service.
And even the most competent civil service can be undone over time by a poor government.
about 4 years ago
Apologies for typo in earlier post:
The phrase “even if you donate one” should read “even if you need one”.
about 4 years ago
Dear Kebab:
Have you seen our parliamentary debates? All you see is three oppositions, made of two opposition MPs and one NCMP. Yes, you may want to argue that nominated MPs can form the opposition, but sad to say, nominated MPs don’t come from the opposition ranks. There is no such thing as a shadow cabinet consisting of opposition in our current system. In many sense, a shadow cabinet should form the government in the event that members of a current government meet with an unfortunate end (touch wood). The thing is that there is no such appointment of a shadow cabinet in our government.
Secondly, ask yourself this question. Do our opposition get sufficient exposure via the media? A case in point is the SDP’s extensive use of podcast during the elections. What happened? The government restated podcast is also covered under the banlist. Even if the opposition has some alternative ideas, chances are that a reader of the mainstream media might never hear of it. Secondly, have you seen the elections hustings on TV? Compare the time dedicated to opposition rallies as opposed to PAP rallies.
Lastly, I don’t think that you are a blind pro-PAP supporter, but just that the contents of your posts are a hyperbola, far from current realities.
Yours sincerely,
Dr Dee
about 4 years ago
Kebab wrote “While no party can claim a track record without being in power, many First World Oppositions do not wait to come into power before assembling their Shadow Cabinet and Shadow Team. This helps convince the electorate of their competency. ”
So we should expect our opposition to be First World in sophistication and resources before you would grant them legitimacy in an electoral/political system that has more in common with the Third World?
Again, perspectives should be relevant to the context of the current state of political/electoral affairs in Singapore. Unfortunately your points seem to posit views that are too absolute and ungrounded in reality, the result of which rationalizes the entrenchment of an already dominant ruling party.
about 4 years ago
I do not see anything wrong with the PAP upgrading the flats of those who supported them FIRST. Please note that the key word here is who gets it FIRST and not who will GET it.
Just imagine if you have voted for the PAP and they have promised you with a flat upgrade. And after the GE, the government (for any reason, e.g. wanting to win some opposition vote the next round, etc.) decided to ask you to WAIT and upgrade those in the opposition ward . How would you feel?
In this real world, we will always return our favour or be more generous to those who supported us or are our alliance. Let me illustrate this by using a non-political example. Mr A has always supported you to be the student council chairman, or has always helped you with your school work, or has supported you to be the managing editor, versus Mr B who did not support you at all. Who then is your friend? Who will you help first if they both approach you for the same assistance?
Flat upgrading is a “good to have” and not a “must have”. If there is one day where the opposition ward’s flat “must have” and upgrade else it would endanger life. I am 100% certain the government will not have a second thought to getting it done.
about 4 years ago
Ah Wong
Your examples are flawed. You have reduced national voting to a parochial exercise in barter – I vote for you and in return you give me the goodies. I suppose because many sadly have the same view the progress packages have delivered the votes too. Just try and bear in mind that all the constituents in HG and PP are included for taxpaying purposes and that state and not party funds are being used for upgrading. By your logic, only the PAP voters should have their flats upgraded!
about 3 years ago
As an expat and having read the start of this discussion , I think PAP members who say they would leave Singapore if things changed , will get a very big social and cultural shock in other countries . I have lived and worked in a few countries , and travelled all over the world , and can say that governmental changes have always been beneficial in the long term for countries . Those countries who have had little or no change for decenies have long term all failed as far as the populations standard of living goes.
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